Episode 22 Transcript- Richard Cottingham: New York's Torso Killer Part 3

[Amanda] Monday, October 30, 1967, was a normal day for two young girls who had returned from school and gone up to a bedroom to play. A while later, while peering out of one of the upstairs windows they saw what they would later recount appeared to them a waxy mannequin lying in a car parked on the street below. Curious, they went outside to investigate but when they got closer, to their horror they realized it was a woman lying naked in the backseat of the car. I’m Amanda Morgan, and this is New York’s Dark Side.

[Intro Music]

[Amanda] I’m back again with what I hope is the final installment of our coverage of Richard Cottingham. I’m running out of cute puppy and kitten videos to cheer me up. If you haven’t listened to the two episodes before this one yet, you’re going to want to stop and go back because we’ve covered quite a bit on him and will likely refer to some past information that’s been covered as we go. We left off with Richard Cottingham having been sentenced to more than 200 years in prison for the murder of five women- Mary Ann Jean Reyner, Valorie Street, Mary Ann Carr, Deedeh Goodarzi, and a Jane Doe who has yet to be identified, as well as the assault and attempted murder of Leslie O’Dell, and assault of Karen Schilt and Susan Geiger. Cottingham until this point had maintained his innocence and he was not forthcoming with giving any information to investigators, even though they were sure he likely had more victims. In their Book- Serial Violence: Analysis of Modus Operandi and Signature Characteristics of Killers, Robert Keppel and William Birnes would describe Richard Cottingham as a torture killer stating “…Richard Cottingham belonged to a subgroup of sexually sadistic serial killers who try to satisfy their self-consuming need for sexual arousal through torturing their victims. The victim’s pain and terror are stimulus to the killer, driving him to a greater frenzy that only serves to intensify the level of the victim’s torture until the killer’s lust is momentarily satisfied. To get to this level of sexual gratification, torture killers are most adept at luring victims, capturing them and then springing their traps. Most are smooth talkers and beguilingly charming but deceitful and ultimately lethal. Torture killers use all sorts of conventional and innovative approaches to con their victims into a false feeling of safety. They flatter and flirt, offer rewards—especially money—hold out the promise of satisfying exactly what they perceive the victim wants, and speak directly to the victims needs. It’s all a ruse made to look innocent to trick a potential victim into stepping into the killer’s world.” This perfectly describes what we have seen so far with Richard Cottingham. He lured women, particularly vulnerable women, such as sex workers by offering them something that they needed- money. He would flash huge wads of cash at them as a bribe. He was always clean, well dressed, and non-threatening looking. He would offer them food and drinks, engaging with them to get them to tell them about their lives and providing them with information about his as well- though the level of truth he would tell could be debated in that regard. He could exaggerate things at times to make himself seem vulnerable. Once he started to gain a level of trust with them, he would drug them, and act as the caring gentleman who offered to get them home safely. Once they were completely susceptible to his trap under the drugs, he would drive them to his comfort zone and engage in torture and sometimes murder. 

[Amanda] It would take over twenty years in prison before- after a lot of time, patience, and coaxing more information started to be drawn from Cottingham about past victims. This is thanks to the hard work of Bergen County Detective Robert Anzilotti, as well as the daughter of Deedeh Goodarzi, one of Cottingham’s victims, whose name was Jennifer Weiss, and a forensic historian and author named Peter Vronsky. 

[Amanda] Detective Anzilotti had been given a total of 12 cold cases from Bergen County to investigate. The youngest of these women was 13, the oldest was 29. Most of them had been seen either hitchhiking or being picked up by a stranger before later being dumped around Bergen County. Detective Anzilotti had built up a relationship with an inmate- Richard Kuklinski- also known as the Ice Man, a serial killer in New Jersey who claimed to have murdered anywhere from 100-200 men, though he was only convicted of 5. Kukliniski was incarcerated at Trenton State Prison, the same prison as Richard Cottingham. Kuklinski would sometimes act as an informant to Detective Anzilotti, so Anzilotti asked Kuklinski if he get him some dirt on Cottingham. Kuklinski agreed, telling him that he hated Cottingham because even though he was a murderer with potentially more victims than Cottingham, he had never hurt women. Kuklinski would come back to Anzilotti with some information that Cottingham was running an illegal gambling ring out of his cell, so Anzilotti used this as a way to gain the upper hand on Cottingham. He had his cell raided the morning after the Super Bowl in 2003 and when evidence was found of the illegal gambling activity, Cottingham was thrown in solitary confinement. After leaving him there for a bit, Anzilotti had him brought to an interrogation room and let him know that he was the reason that he had ended up there and he could put him back if he needed to. The power play gave Anziolotti a bit of respect in Cottingham’s eyes and while he wasn’t immediately forthcoming with information, telling Anzilotti that he was trying to keep things out of the paper for his kids… but let’s be real here, if he was really worried about protecting his children, he wouldn’t have killed anyone, but I digress. Cottingham and Anzilotti started to spend time talking and building trust with each other. Initially they started the conversations discussing the crimes that he had already been convicted for and was currently serving time. Cottingham would tell Anzilotti that he would purposely change him modus operandi to throw off investigators. 

[Amanda] By 2006, Cottingham finally started to cooperate and gave some information regarding a murder from October of 1967. This was the murder of a young housewife named Nancy Vogel. Cottingham lived in the same neighborhood as Nancy in Little Ferry, New Jersey and they knew one another. On October 27, 1967, Nancy had plans to play Bingo at St. Margaret’s Roman Catholic Church with a friend, but she never showed. She was married to her husband Henry for nine years and they had two young children. Henry reported Nancy missing the following morning. Police initially found nothing. It wasn’t until a few days later, October 30th, when two twelve-year-old girls saw what they thought was a waxy mannequin from a window in their home in the back of a parked car that the truth of what happened to Nancy came out. The girls alerted a neighbor to their discovery and police were summoned. It would take over four years for Detective Anzilotti to get a full confession from Cottingham as to what he had done to Nancy Vogel. Cottingham said that he had run into Nancy at the Valley Fair Shopping Center. They talked and he asked her out to drinks which she agreed to, so they went to the Holiday Inn across the street from the Food Mart. She offered him a ride, which he accepted. After drinks they went to Norther New Jersey to Montvale to a wooded area behind a cornfield where he said he “forced consensual” sex on her then smothered her by holding his hand over her mouth and nose. Once she was gone, he drove her 1960 four door rambler back to where it was found by the two girls a few days later. Nancy was naked, her clothes neatly folded beneath her. She had been beaten and her hands were left bound in front of her with a thin nylon cord. In the trunk were a couple of purchases she had made while shopping. 

[Amanda] After getting this confession, the task turned to letting Nancy’s remaining family know what they had learned. Nancy had two children, a son and daughter, who were informed of Cottingham’s confession, but asked them not to say anything publicly yet as investigators were hoping to get additional confessions from him but they were concerned that he would stop talking if news broke publicly. Cottingham was offered a plea deal, life in prison without possibility of parole for pleading guilty to the murder of Nancy Vogal. This wouldn’t change anything for him since he was already serving multiple life sentences for his previous convictions. He agreed to the plea deal however and they set up a court date for August 2010, requesting it be late in the day to try to adhere to a quick, quiet, no fanfare trial. The judge forced Cottingham to apologize to Nancy Vogal’s children during the trial. After the trial, Cottingham shut down and told Anzilotti that he was not going to participate in anything like that again. Three weeks after the court date, a paper ran a story on the new conviction. Cottingham would become upset, telling Anzilotti that he didn’t want the notoriety of being a killer, to which I say- then don’t kill people! This would the first closing of one of those cold case files Anzilotti had started out with. 

[Amanda] After this hiccup, investigators decided to switch tactics and this time they offered Cottingham something called exceptional clearance, which means that if a confession was corroborated by evidence and witness statements and believed to be an honest confession, they could tell the family the case was solved and close it. This is usually a tough balancing act to do, but Cottingham is already serving multiple life sentences for previous convictions. As they continue their conversations with Cottingham, he tells them that he was watching the show Roswell and there was an actress named Shiri Appleby that reminded him of one of his victims. Anzilotti recalled one of those cold case files had a young girl that had disappeared from a bus stop that bore a resemblance to the actress, so this might be something viable. 18-year-old Irene Blasé went missing on April 7, 1969. She was last seen at a bus stop speaking to a man who was tugging on his right ear frequently during their conversation by another person at the bus stop. Irene’s body would be found the following day in the Saddle Brook River. Robert Anzilotti had a personal connection to this case, his cousin Richard Guadagno was Irene’s boyfriend at the time of her disappearance. They had gotten into an argument at a club at some point before she went missing and that was the last time, he had seen her. Guadagno was heavily looked into as a suspect in her death, which would impact the rest of his life. Irene’s mother believed him to be the one who committed the murder, so he was not allowed to attend her funeral. On June 20, 2014, Cottingham formally confessed to the death of Irene Blasé. He would state that he had saw her shopping at a Sears Department store and decided to follow her. For the next 15 to 20 minutes, he tracked her as she window shopped down Main Street. When she got to the bust stop, he approached her, talked to her and offered her a drink which she accepted. He called a cab and took her to Little Ferry, New Jersey where they had drinks at the Holiday Inn. He told investigators that he had chosen this place because he went there regularly, and he had parked his car there. He then took her to a place on Essex Street for pizza because he started to get worried about being recognized by someone at the hotel. After they had pizza, he attacked her, tying her up with the scarf that she had just purchased at Sears. He made a similar claim as he had with Nancy Vogal, stating that he never “forced sex” on women, he just told them that they were going to have sex “and that was that”. He would describe poking at her with a knife for fun, making shallow cuts and stabs to get the women to comply with what he wanted. Once he had his fill, he strangled Irene with her stockings. In December of 2014, Anzilotti was able to bring closure to his cousin Richard by telling him what he had learned about the case as well as to the remaining family of Irene. This closed a second case for Anzilotti.

[Amanda] Continuing their work, they were able to get another confession from Cottingham, this time for the murder of 15-year-old Denise Falasca. Denise was going to be going into her sophomore year at Northern Valley High School where she played field hockey and basketball. She was a member of Closter’s Drum and Fife Corps. She, just like all the other women this monster of a man took from the world far too early had her whole life ahead of her. On July 14, 1969, Cottingham would come across Denise walking along a road. She was on her way to meet her boyfriend. Anzilotti would say that at times his work with Cottingham would impact his life at home, he had daughters of his own and it was really heard for him to sit and listen to Cottingham talk about the horrible things he had done. This was a case that especially bothered Anzilotti. Cottingham confessed to pulling up to Denise and offering her a ride to meet her friends, which she accepted. He instead took her to the parking lot of St. Andrews School, where he had gone to school as a child, and trigger warning- forced her perform oral sex on him which he then made a statement about her not being very good at. It’s fucking heart breaking… Cottingham said he then drove her to Saddle Brook where he strangled her with the crucifix necklace she was wearing and left her. He then drove the New York City to get something to eat. He told investigators that it was like someone other than himself was doing it, but I don’t buy it at all. I think this is just his narcissistic asshole tendency to downplay what he did and not take accountability for his own actions. Denise’s body was found the next day by a 12-year-old boy riding his bicycle. He went home and alerted his parents who called police. This closed the third cold case of Anzilotti’s, the second through exceptional clearance. 

[Amanda] Next Cottingham looked at some photos and pointed out a girl that he said reminded him of a victim he had named “helmet head” because of her short haircut. This was 13-year-old Jacalyn Harp. On July 17, 1968, Jacalyn had just finished band practice, she was the flag holder with the school band. She was walking home when Richard Cottingham noticed her from where he was sitting in a root beer joint. He told investigators that he took notice of her because she didn’t have any socks on and had on low shoes, she had been wearing moccasins that day. He gave his formal confession to her murder on June 1, 2017, almost 50 years later. He told investigators that he had offered her a ride home, which she refused, so instead he decided to follow her. She noticed him following her, so she turned back around towards town. He took his chance and grabbed her, pulling her into an alley where he tried to rape her, but panicked when she started to scream, so he strangled her with her flag belt that she had been carrying home. Her family became frantic when she didn’t come home and started to search for her. Her sister would recall on the A&E documentary, the Torso Killer Confessions that they had passed by the alley where she was found, a half a mile from their home, but they hadn’t gone down it. 

[Amanda] Investigators were trying to keep their agreement with keeping the three confessions quiet from the media, but it didn’t work out. As it turned out, Richard Cottingham was working with an author, Peter Vronsky, who was writing a book on his life. And this is where Jennifer Weiss and Peter Vronsky come into play in the Richard Cottingham Confessions. In an article by Rodrigo Torrejon on NJ.com, in 2017 Jennifer Weiss would write her frist letter to Richard Cottingham, asking her two most burning questions- Did you know my mother? And where did you hide her head. Jennifer is the daughter of Cottingham's victim Deedah Goodarzi, who was one of the two torsos that were found in the Travel Inn Motor Lodge in New York City by firefighters who had been called to the hotel room fire. Jennifer would describe putting a bunch of emoji stickers on the first letter and trying to approach Cottingham with kindness to get the answers that she desperately wanted. She also asked him to add her to the list of people that could visit. After a month, she got a response from Cottingham with an apology and two months later he did add her to his visitation list. Cottingham would write to Jennifer- “I just don’t know what to say to you or how to say it. I can only tell you what’s in my heart and pray that you believe me. I am truly and deeply sorry, so very sorry, for all the pain I have brought into your life”. Cottingham would eventually tell Weiss that he buried Deedeh Goodarzi’s head at the base of the George Washington Bridge, though to this day it has yet to be found. He would also tell her that he had known her mother, he had been one of her clients for two years before he ended her life in such a grotesque fashion, and that he had done it because he didn’t care about people or the society around him. Jennifer talks about finding out the truth regarding her mother’s death and her relationship with Richard Cottingham on the true crime docuseries ‘Crime Scene: The Times Square Killer’ on Netflix.

[Amanda] According to an article by Breena Elrich in Rolling Stone- Robert Anzilotti, Jennifer Weiss, and Peter Vronsky would start to communicate with each other in 2017. Jennifer had reached out to Bergen County law enforcement after Cottingham had told her the location of her mother’s head. Jennifer would befriend Peter Vronsky and they found out about the three confessions through connecting with a network of victim’s family and friends that were upset about not being able to publicly discuss the murders. The article brings up an important point that within the community if there are innocent people that community members believe committed the crime, then they are living with the burden of suspicion. Vronsky would speak with Anzilotti and get his permission to write about the confessions in his book, but then he also held a press conference in Midland Park, New Jersey at a library in December 2019 to announce that Richard Cottingham had committed the murders. Anzilotti feared that Cottingham would stop giving information after that, but he didn’t. Peter Vronsky told Rolling Stone Magazine he believes this is because of Cottingham’s relationship with Jennifer, stating “Jennifer is strangely sort of a ‘vessel’ or ‘vehicle’ for his confessions. The daughter of one of his many victims through whom he atones for the murders of others. Confessions through her were now what Cottingham had settled on as his price”. 

[Amanda] Cottingham would next confess to the murders of two more teenage girls, but there is some disagreement regarding how exactly these confessions came about… Anzilotti would say in the A & E docuseries The Torso Killer Confessions that he decided to retire in March of 2021 and wanted to use his retirement as leverage to gain more confessions. Vronsky told Rolling Stone that Cottingham told him that he would confess to a series of 16 murders around New York and New Jersey as a favor to him for writing his book if he could make the confessions on camera with Jennifer Weiss in the room, however he states Anzilotti initially was intrigued then back tracked on the idea. Anzilotti told Rolling Stone he was never on board with the idea as “that’s not how law enforcement takes a confession”. Cottingham told Rolling Stone that he had been close to making an arrangement with Anzilotti for the confession, but they weren’t able to come up with a favorable agreement for all parties,. Jennifer helped with that in that he felt that he needed to please her with how important the confessions were to her, but he also had done it for Anzilotti because of the years that he had put in to convincing him to do the right thing. Overall, what matters more than who got Cottingham to confess to the next murders, is the fact that he did confess and give closure to two more families who had been left with so many emotions and questions after losing their loved ones. 

[Amanda] On August 9, 1974, 16-year-old Lorraine Kelley and 17-year-old Mary Ann Pryor were two best friends going to the mall together to buy a bathing suit for an upcoming vacation. The girls were hitchhiking to the mall when Cottingham drove past them on his way to work. He stopped and offered them a ride. A few witnesses would later report seeing them getting into a car with a white man. According to Cottingham, it started to rain by the time that they got to the mall, so that in his mind was what sealed their fate. Instead of dropping them off at the mall, he drove them to a hotel where he put Lorraine in a headlock and threatened Mary Ann to get them to go inside. He said that they watched TV for a while on the bed and were laughing and joking. Cottingham would sexually assault both girls over the two days that he had them at the hotel. He told investigators at night he would hogtie them so that he could get some sleep without fear of them running away. When he was done, he drowned both girls in the bathtub, first Lorraine and then Mary Ann. When the families reported the girls missing, they said they were told by police that girls had run away. The girls were found in a wooded area in Montvale. The family first heard that the bodies of two girls had been found in Montvale moments before investigators arrived to ask them to come do an identification.  Richard Cottingham would formally confess on April 14, 2021 to the murders and received two more life sentences. I’ve honestly lost count of where we are at now and we are still… not… done… 

[Amanda] Robert Anzilotti retired in May of 2021, the community held a huge retirement celebration for him, but he’s still continued to correspond with Richard Cottingham. 

[Amanda] In August of 2022, investigators offered Richard Cottingham a non-prosecution agreement and received a confession from him to the murder of Lorraine McGraw. Hikers found her body on March 1, 1970 off of Tweed Boulevard in South Nyack. Like Jennifer Weiss, Lorraine’s granddaughter was searching for the truth as to what happened to her grandmother. She believed for years that Cottingham had something to do with it, so she wrote to him. She told PIX11’s Mary Murphy that while Cottingham never directly said that he had killed her grandmother, he did tell her that he knew what happened to her. Lorraine McGraw was working as a sex worker when she encountered Cottingham. Like others, she was beaten and strangled. 

[Amanda] In February of 1968 Richard Cottingham took the life of Diane Cusick, a 23 year old mother of one who worked as a dance teacher. Diane had told her parents that she was going to the mall on February 15th to buy shoes. She was found in her car- beaten, raped, and strangled in Valley Stream’s Green Acres Mall parking lot on February 16th by her parents. I can't imagine being a parent and finding your child that way, because I know she was an adult, but that's your baby. They're always your baby. Investigators believe that Cottingham may have pretended to be either a security guard or police officer to gain Diane’s trust in going with him. With Diane’s case, investigators had DNA evidence, which was how they were able to finally connect Cottingham to her murder 54 years later. 

[Amanda] 21-year-old Mary Beth Heinz disappeared on May 5th, 1972. Her body was found strangled, face down in a muddy creek in Rockville Centre. Two months later 23-year-old Laverne Moy, a mother of two, was found on July 20, 1972 strangled to death in the same area. 

[Amanda] Shelia Hyman, age 33, was found by her husband in the bathroom of their North Woodmere home beaten to death on July 20, 1973. Shelia was a married mother whose children were away at summer camp and her husband was out shopping when it occurred. Shelia’s husband was long suspected to be a potential suspect in her murder and he would unfortunately pass away in 2004, long before the truth came to light in the public’s eye. Randi Child, Shelia’s daughter would say to reporters of her father that “He was a kind and generous man who loved our mother deeply and who spent too many years living in the shadow of his wife’s murder. There’s no reason why he should have been suspected. My poor dad lived with that until the day he died”. 

[Amanda] Marita Rosado Nieves, 18 years old from Puerto Rico who was strangled on or about December 27, 1973. Her body was found on Jones Beach. Park employees out doing maintenance found her in a weeded area covered in plastic bags and wrapped in a gray blanket. Police were looking for family. 

[Amanda] The assistant district attorney asked Cottingham to ask forgiveness of the families, to which he said No. He was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison for the murder of Diane Cusick in exchange for non-prosecution for the confession of the other four murders as part of a plea deal.

[Amanda] And that's where we stand to as of this recording in January of 2024. Richard Cottingham has confessed to the murders of 16 women. He has claimed to have murdered as many as 80 to 100. Uh, it seems like that could potentially be an actual real thing, I mean, some of these victims were pretty close together in their attacks and if he is to be believed, he was killing someone about once every month. A lot of his victims, not all of them, were sex workers. He chose them because they were vulnerable. He chose them because they were easy prey. And you know, we talked about in an earlier episode that the culture of the times around sex work, I mean, it's still, it's still not great, it's still considered a crime in many areas across the country, but sex work has been around forever. It's not new. But it's often something that, you know, crimes against sex workers are often overlooked. We know human trafficking is a very real thing. It's very underreported because of fea and the danger to the victims. So if he was truly killing a person a month and taking sex workers as his victims. It's very it's very real that there are more victims out there that we will probably never be able to connect to him. I feel like I'm totally botching this but... We talked about in, you know, an earlier episode that the police and in this time frame in New York City had started using an acronym NHI- No human involved in the in the deaths of sex workers that were found around New York City. So how many of those victims could have been victims of Richard Cottingham? It's... It's truly scary. It's truly heartbreaking to even to even think about because these are people. And as hard as these cases are to sometimes research, as hard as they are to talk about I think it is important to talk about them because if we don't talk about them and we don't remember the victims. Then it's truly the killers that win. I didn't start this podcast to, you know, highlight the killers. I started it to bring light to the victims and remember the victims, and I truly hope that I am doing justice and talking to them and doing it in a manner that, you know, I don't know what I'm trying to say. I guess memorializes them in a... in a positive light. Um, yeah, that's what I got. So I just wanna again give a a shout out to a couple of resources. You know we've talked about some very, very dark topics and I don't know who's listening out there. I continue to be very graciously humbled with the continued audience for this podcast. I never thought that it would reach the audience that it has. I thought maybe I'd have like 5 people listening, but we have more than that and continue to grow. But if there is somebody out there that is, you know, struggling in a situation of human trafficking or sexual assault or abuse, You are not alone. There are resources out there, and I'm going to highlight two that we've talked about in the last two episodes. The first one is the Polaris Project. The Polaris Project runs the National Human Trafficking hotline and they're doing a lot of work out there to rovide education, resources and hope for victims of human trafficking. So if you or someone you know needs help, you can call 1-888-373-7888 or text, "be free" to 233733 and you can also go to polarisproject.org to find out about all of the work that they are doing and just there's a wealth of information there about this this horrible, horrible crime of human trafficking. We are continuing our fundraising campaign for the Polaris Project, so in the show notes you will find the link to take you to our fundraising campaign. I don't know if anyone's like, I don't know if anyone's donated as I'm recording this, but I'll probably update that as I put this out to include that information. The are other resource that I wanted to share is the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network or RAINN. They are the nation's largest anti sexual violence resource and run the National Sexual Assault Hotline. So if you or someone you know has been a victim of sexual assault, again, you are not alone. You can call 1-800-656 -4673 for a safe place to talk about what has happened, for some help and support. You can download their mobile app or visit www.rainn.org For more information about that. Yeah, um, ok, well... To finish closing this out, I just wanna give a couple other quick plugs and then I will send you on your way for the week. Don't forget you can follow our show on any of our social media platforms. We are on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Please make sure you are following the show on your podcast platform of of choice. To make sure that you're getting updates on when new episodes drop for next week, I have a very special guest host coming and she is going to present a true crime case that has really been close to her heart for... I think it's been 16 years since since it occurred, so please come back next week and and join us for that. I'm excited to have her next weekend. Hopefully for some additional guest appearances every now and again in the future. Um. And don't forget that you can help support the show over on Patreon. We are on Patreon, so I'm continuing to build that but for $2.00 a month, you can get a shout out on an upcoming episode as well as sneak peeks of upcoming episode topics. You'll get a copy of our electronic newsletter that we're starting and some other you know, behind the scenes things as well as my eternal gratitude in helping support our show continue to grow. For $5 a month you'll get the benefit of the $2.00 tier and early access to next week's episode. Episodes typically drop on Sunday, but if you join the Patreon tier, you'll get them on Thursdays. And I am starting a $10 tier, so for $10 you'll get the benefits of the two and five dollar tier as well as a biweekly cocktail hour live stream with me where you know, we can do a variety of different things. We'll talk about, you know, past episodes. I'll answer your questions... you can submit stuff. Maybe I'll have some mini episode topics for you. You know, just kind of kind of play it out, get your feedback on what you like and I'm very excited to do that. So the proceeds of that again will go back into the show for source materials, software, hardware, all the things that go into keeping this podcast running, as well as a portion of the proceeds will go towards our fundraising efforts. We're working with the Polaris project right now, but I'm really, you know, wanting to kind of expand some of that fundraising and advocacy work. I think there's gonna be some real opportunities to continue to do that work in the future and I just greatly appreciate you considering joining us over there. Um. Goodness. I think that's it. Yeah. So with that. I hope you have a great week ahead. I hope you keep listening and I hope you stay curious.